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Discussion Topic:
The DTCC Warning
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Gold Fish |
02-20-2010 @ 10:38 AM
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It is getting more risky every month to hold any large portion of one's portfolio in shares. All shares purchased in the U.S., even Canadian shares purchased through any U.S. broker, are actually owned by the DTCC, Depository Trust Clearing Corporation.
The DTCC is a private corporation knee deep involved with derivatives and naked shorting. Several law suits are on-going because the DTCC has failed to deliver stocks and has allowed other private corporations to borrow shares for the sole purpose of naked shorting. The DTCC has turned a blind eye to all naked shorting.
The only way any U.S. stock has full protection is, if it is in your name and your possession. It is now too late to transfer most shares to your own name because the DTCC is in the process to totally closing the direct transfer window to all investors. The DTCC wants full control of all shares possible.
Even though we all know that quality metal shares will outperform the entire market, the risk is growing that the DTCC could hault all trading at any given time, will continue to default on more trades, will loan out more shares for naked shorting, and possibly create new policies that would negatively affect all investors. One recent, serious, change, is the new rule created that allows all money market funds to be used in covering losing derivative positions if necessary. Will the shares be next ? They have complete authority to change the rules at anytime. While the financial system continues to implode in secret, there may soon come the time when holding all shares not in your direct name and possession, is too risky. I fear that time is approaching rapidly.
The DTCC has subsidiaries that are directly involved with huge amounts of derivatives. This private corporation should definately be included in the banking cartel.If you have already transferred your shares in your name and possession, you are safe to ride the metal bull to great profits. If you have not,
bullion will be your safest investment.
How much time is left to risk unprotected shares ? That answer is unknown but, the risk continues to grow.
Another question in conjunction is, how close are we to all one ounce gold coins drying up ? The bullion market world wide is getting tighter. It may be wise to hold 100% bullion for those who have not protected their shares. Read up on the DTCC and all the subsidiaries it owns.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depository_Trust_&_Clearing_Corporation
Best, Gold Fish
This message was edited by Gold Fish on 2-20-10 @ 11:00 AM
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zenharmonics |
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02-21-2010 @ 6:23 PM
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Sinclair would have been challenged to have said it better!
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zenharmonics |
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02-23-2010 @ 7:08 AM
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While it seems to make good sense to "get off the grid," has anyone had much experience trading certificates? Of course you can purchase a stock through a broker and get immediate execution. After that, one can covert the brokerage holding to a certificate (which pulls the money out of the brokerage) with a month lag time for processing. This said, once you have the physical certificate and want to sell, how is the execution price determined? Is it best to Fed Ex a certificate to the company transfer agent where you own the shares to get the closing price of the next day? In short, how is it best to get a good execution with a certificate? Secondly, can one sell only a portion of shares on the certificate? How does this work? With the caliber of commentators on this board, I'm embarrassed by my question, but it may be of relavant use for other patrons. I'm not planning to sell any certificates soon, but if a significant price rise would occur I would like to be prepared to exit and get physical gold. At any rate, the fact the SEC has recently gained the right to "temporarily" confiscate moneymarket funds for liquidity (derivative) reasons, the information provided above is quite timely.
This message was edited by zenharmonics on 2-23-10 @ 7:42 AM
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martinrooy |
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02-23-2010 @ 9:04 AM
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Zen, I believe you can trade a certificate as though the broker had them. You may sell at whatever the market is now. The broker will execute and expect prompt delivery of your certificate which he will forward to the registry, trust or agent. There is a time alloted for settlement of the trade to facilitate the delivery of certificates.
I suppose a partial sale will result in you delivering your certificate in exchange for money and a new certificate for the balance of the shares.
This is how I see it and how it used to be done.
If the trade is between you and physical someone then sign and transfer yourself, via the trust or agent or just hand the signed certificate to the physical someone in exchange for the monies. You become the broker. If you record a price near the actual market then I don't expect tax people are going to object. They only care about knowing what you did and for what.
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scoffy |
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02-23-2010 @ 9:21 AM
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zenharmonicsl
I was surprised at your remark. That the SEC has the power to temporarily confiscate money market fumds.Where can I find additional information on this matter? As it is the first that I have learned of this.
Thank You,
Scoffy
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zenharmonics |
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02-23-2010 @ 12:53 PM
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MRooy,
Many thanks for the certificate redemption information.
Scoffy,
Possibly temporary confiscation isn't the "nice" term, but the article below supports the premise. The SEC made this significant ruling not long ago under the radar. On one hand, possibly its a temporary solution to the derivatives crisis. On the other hand, the government and banks will be using your brokerage money, and as GF sugggests, possibly your SHARES to solve it! I'm doing my best to replace my shares with certificates.
From Zerohedge:
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/suspending-money-market-redemptions-now-legel-sec-approves-new-money-market-regulation-4-1-v
This message was edited by zenharmonics on 2-25-10 @ 7:12 AM
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scoffy |
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02-23-2010 @ 8:59 PM
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Zen,
Thank You !!
Scoffy
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jax |
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02-25-2010 @ 12:33 AM
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Thank You Goldfish....
I couldn't agree more with your outlook. Long term holds should, wherever possible; be repatriated as share certificates. That window remains open to Canadians (as of November '09) but the dealer I spoke to then said they were expecting prohibitive barriers to prevent smaller investors from taking possession.
My gut tells me that the financial authorities are doing their best to keep shares down since they tend to precede rising metal prices. With firms such as the DTCC, their task is simplified. The Toronto authorities haven't exactly been all that diligent in restraining naked shorting so don't look for salvation in the TSX.
Bullion prices will continue to rise due to uncertainty in the financial sectors and general economies around the world. Companies that produce gold are still largely tied into the overall economic risks. For that reason I expect bullion prices to vastly outperform equities in most mining firms.
I deal with TD Waterhouse and was told that my shares would be credited to my account within forty eight hours of delivering them to a Toronto Dominion bank branch.
Gold bullion coins are currently readily available in Canada. There are no delays or bottlenecks that I am aware of but I do remember how fast that situation changed with the modest increase in demand back in the Fall of '08. It would not take much to drain the retail sector bullion product from the market.
Jack Fortin
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trevbus |
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02-26-2010 @ 3:44 AM
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By contrast Australian shares are accounted for by outfits like ComputerShare. There are no certificates.
I feel a lot safer with this system.
Delivery failures are a very rare event on the ASX and are big news when they happen.
However I own some Oceana Gold (OGC). It is traded in Canada, Aust and NZ. Goldfish, do you have any thoughts on what might happen to shareholdings such as this?
I imagine that short selling of the stock on the ASX utilising fictional shares created in North America would be difficult as ComputerShare or CHESS would probably demand delivery of the certificate into an account with them prior to the stock being sold on the ASX?
For those interested in researching the Australian system check out:
ASX Securities and Transfer Corporation Pty Ltd
which operates
CHESS - Clearing House Electronic Subregister System
different companies use different share registries, many use ComputerShare Investor Services Pty Ltd
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Gold Fish |
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03-07-2010 @ 9:47 AM
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Hello to all,
I've been out of the U.S. the past two weeks further scouting the Honduran Island of Roatan where my Brother resides.
Just over the past two weeks, more details about the DTCC have evolved and the share risk continues to grow.
Bix Weir recently posted a gold knowledge quiz that includes very important info links in his answer page. To take the quiz;
http://www.roadtoroota.com/public/197.cfm
Then click on his answer link.
Bix firmly believes that the end game will be a return to the gold standard. He also firmly believes that everything paper, including the shares, will become worthless after the fiat crash. He bases that belief on the fact that the DTCC not only currently owns most U.S. shares, but it will be the only clearing house left after the crash that every shareholder will be forced to clear privately held shares through. Since the DTCC is crooked in every way, how safe will shares in anyone's possession be after the fiat crash ? The risk is growing every month. Read this;
http://futurenewstoday.blogspot.com/2009/10/dtcc-wall-streets-untouchable-bookie.html
Also, there is unconfirmed, leaked, info that discussions are being held at the white house level to create a plan to nationalize all U.S. mining companies just before the fiat crash. If this occurs, all mining shares world wide will be revalued by nationalization with the intention to prevent shareholders from gaining huge wealth as gold soars.
After the fiat crash, gold and silver will not only become the most valued form of money again, all nations will quickly move to protect every ounce they have left both above and inground. So, for those of us who are wondering about the shares we own from any foreign nation, when the crash occurs and all paper is affected, the likelyhood that any nation will honor foreign shareholders' paper value will be zero. If the U.S. nationalizes all mining companies, do you think they will honor any full value on all U.S. mining shares ? Get serious, the fiat crash will wipe out all things paper.
Yes, there is still some time to ride the shares through a few excellent up movements this year in my personal opinion. Please, do not make any personal investment decisions on that opinion. I plan to convert all shares to 100% bullion before 2010 is over. Trying to guess when the fiat crash will actually occur is insane. It will happen when everyone least expects and so fast that all actions to liquidate anything paper will be impossible to execute.
The warnings are growing. 100% bullion is the safest possible form of protection anyone can have.
While Sinclair believes that the shares will soar over the coming years and Weix believes they will become worthless after the fiat crash, each of us will have to decide our own risk tolerance. As much as I respect Jim Sinclair, no-one is 100% correct all the time.
Bullion is the safest to own.
Best, Gold Fish
This message was edited by Gold Fish on 3-7-10 @ 12:45 PM
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